Curse

exploiter · Sep 15, 2008, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Maybe its just Zinn, he can lie about stranger cant he? Asuras are E V I L !!

Free Runner · Sep 15, 2008, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Asura are too arrogant. Causing chaos for the Human Race would be wasted time that could of been spent doing something smarter.

exploiter · Sep 15, 2008, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Quote:

The Asura believe that they are destined to rule the world, with the taller, less intelligent races under them.

quote from wiki

Free Runner · Sep 15, 2008, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Just because they believe that, doesnt mean they want to eradicate all humans.

Why would Zinn create Golems in order to kill the human leaders and then send off a force of humans to take out those Golems, thus meaning that there was no point to actually creating the Golems because in the end, three were destroyed and one was taken by the humans, leaving him with the worse one. I know the Asura are all for experiments with dangerous outcomes but M.O.X appears to be a very valuable Golem - i think he would of gone about it in a different way that didnt include him losing M.O.X.

Hugh Manatee · Sep 15, 2008, 05:31 PM // 17:31

I stand by the livia theory, maybe less so than the the mursaat conjecture, but they wouldn't show livia gaining the scepter for no reason. Even if she found it years after the golem assassination incident, she could still be responsible for it, and it shows she seeks objects of power for unknown motives(I don't think she want's the scepter for a 6 foot long swizzle stick...). The thing is still an artifact of extreme power, and has been used as a superweapon(if raising hoards of undead to wage war on your behalf doesn't classify as superweapon, what the hell does...) The power of the scepter has been abused, that's why it was sealed away(absolute power, corrupts absolutely, you don't necessarily need abaddon to be an ass... she could be the agent of another force too).

No-one I can think of in the game had connections to the golemancers, the bloodstones, knowledge of the jungle, relative motive, expressed interest in arcane energies, matched the profile of someone who would resort to assassination attempts... The only other people in the game who I can recall might be the stone summit, the thing in sorrows furnace looks as though it was manufactured by asurans(there are pieces of it in oola's lab). There are bloodstones in the shiverpeaks, the stone summit hate everybody, there are outlets from the shiverpeaks to cantha at least, though they have no motive to attack elona other then generic world domination...

During the EotN game as I understand it the shining blade, mantle and lionguard were in some sort of civil war, If salma were made a martyr it would be a unifying force with a clear scapegoat(remember zinn was supposed to die).

Quote:

From the manual:

"While the war between the White Mantle and the Shining Blade tears apart her Krytan homeland, Livia risks everything to keep her people safe. She joined the Shining Blade to protect them; she killed to defend them. Now freed from the control of the deadly Mursaat, Kryta struggles to survive, its leaders destroyed and its population beset by civil disorder.

Tasked by her superiors with finding a way to end the civil war, Livia has traveled into the Depths. She seeks a weapon of power—anything that will keep Kryta safe. And she is willing to give her life for it... as well as the lives of those around her."

and dig this: http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:LiviaUnlocked.jpg

Xien might be an agent of the stranger, but that bean eating freak is not the stranger... though I wouldn't put it past A-net to give some random miniboss or do nothing race a whole new backstory and lame motives... besides as I understand it he does die in during the raid on oola's lab.

The conundrum is, anyone who would want to kill 1 or more of the targets has no clear motive to attack the others... unless they invent more lore.

Free Runner · Sep 15, 2008, 07:06 PM // 19:06

I still dont see your explanation about Elona and Cantha. Why would Livia send off Golems to targets that have nothing to do with Kryta? no need to cover tracks because its all going to be blamed on Zinn anyway. What i was actually getting at with the whole Scepter of Orr thing is that, for all we know shes still searching for that. So shes preoccupied with finding/using the Scepter rather than sending off very powerful Golems. Do you think she would go through all the trouble of finding the Scepter and then randomly change plans to instead affect other continents shes probably never been too?

And with Xien i was aiming at the employer being the one who did it rather than Xien coming back from the grave.

Gmr Leon · Sep 15, 2008, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

I stand by the livia theory, maybe less so than the the mursaat conjecture, but they wouldn't show livia gaining the scepter for no reason.

She never gains it, she never takes it, in fact the cut scene seems to indicate uncertainty. I would say her thoughts went something like this:

"This was the Scepter Evennia gave to Vizier Khilbron..He claimed to use it to control the Undead of Orr..And he commanded the Titans to attack Kryta, Ascalon, the Deldrimor Dwarves, and my fellow comrades. Do I want to risk unleashing this kind of power on Kryta for the sake of the people? Would there ever be order after this or would there be continued war as power hungry war lords try to claim the Scepter for their own?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

Even if she found it years after the golem assassination incident, she could still be responsible for it, and it shows she seeks objects of power for unknown motives(I don't think she want's the scepter for a 6 foot long swizzle stick...).

Her motives are to find an artifact that can give them the edge they need in their war to restore the royalty and order to Kryta.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

The power of the scepter has been abused, that's why it was sealed away(absolute power, corrupts absolutely, you don't necessarily need abaddon to be an ass... she could be the agent of another force too).

Not to mention the fact that humans, whether they be Undead or not, clearly can't use it responsibly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

The only other people in the game who I can recall might be the stone summit, the thing in sorrows furnace looks as though it was manufactured by asurans(there are pieces of it in oola's lab). There are bloodstones in the shiverpeaks, the stone summit hate everybody, there are outlets from the shiverpeaks to cantha at least, though they have no motive to attack elona other then generic world domination...

The Iron Forgeman was not developed by the Asura. It was, in fact, created by the Stone Summit. However, the pieces seen in Oola's lab are her working on reverse-engineering them to understand how they function.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

During the EotN game as I understand it the shining blade, mantle and lionguard were in some sort of civil war, If salma were made a martyr it would be a unifying force with a clear scapegoat(remember zinn was supposed to die).

...An even more unifying force would just be her as a symbol of hope, for the future, to shed the manipulative forces behind their leadership. The Shining Blade and Lionguard are working together to fight against the White Mantle, this is true, and obviously that means there is a Krytan Civil War occurring.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

The conundrum is, anyone who would want to kill 1 or more of the targets has no clear motive to attack the others... unless they invent more lore.

We have Dhuum, he seems rather likely, Menzies..Well, not so much as Dhuum, but if they're working together it would work.

Also, we have solid lore on the Mursaat that provides plenty of reason to attack all humans. The interesting part is that if it did happen to be the Mursaat, we would need an explanation of how they know of the other human civilizations. How? Easy. Both Canthans and Elonians come to Lion's Arch requesting help at one point in time or another, it would take self-imposed ignorance to not know of this contact.

Free Runner · Sep 15, 2008, 08:44 PM // 20:44

I would say its very easy to find out whos important in Cantha and Elona. All they need to hear is that Cantha is ran by an Emperor, and Vabbi is greatly influenced by the three merchent princes - after that its just the sending of the Golems to carry out their missions, they have to take care of.

The Mursaat must at least know of Cantha, and it wouldnt take long to hear about Elona, with the near end of the world experience that had happened (i would guess Justiciar Naveed knows about Kormirs ascension). Infact the Mursaat probably know alot more than we think they do.

The Asura live in the depths which run all over Tyria so i'm guessing they have some knowledge of the Emperor and the Princes. All it would take is the person to force the right information (such as names) out of Zinn.

Konig Des Todes · Sep 16, 2008, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

The thing is still an artifact of extreme power, and has been used as a superweapon(if raising hoards of undead to wage war on your behalf doesn't classify as superweapon, what the hell does...)

There is no support that the undead and Titans were really controlled by the Scepter of Orr. Khilbron was a lich and commanded the Undead way before he had the scepter. The Titans might have been ordered by Abaddon to "follow the dude with the stick," or Khilbron was able to control the Titans because he can control undead and the Titans are formed by twisted souls, and spirits are a form of undead. So, it's not a superweapon, in the sense you are saying. But it is a powerful weapon (way that is so is unknown).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

The power of the scepter has been abused, that's why it was sealed away(absolute power, corrupts absolutely, you don't necessarily need abaddon to be an ass... she could be the agent of another force too).

What I meant before by Khilbron was corrupted by Abaddon was that the corruption was not caused by the Scepter. In this sense, your "livia was corrupted" has no hold other then a hypothesis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

No-one I can think of in the game had connections to the golemancers, the bloodstones, knowledge of the jungle, relative motive, expressed interest in arcane energies, matched the profile of someone who would resort to assassination attempts...

I already said that Livia did not have connections to golemancers other then working with ONE for as long as our characters did. Did you see how they were built? Or anything of the sort? Gadd was not a golemancer, he researched/created power sources, not golems. The bloodstones are still a bit of a mistery, even to the Shining Blade, the only ones with a very reasonable amount of knowledge of the Bloodstones would be the Mursaat. The Shining Blade are just now starting to learn. Motive, revenge on the humans is something nearly every non-human race wants (aside from Dredge, Forgotten, Norn, and Asura). And I don't see how Livia "matches the profile of someone who would resort to assassination attempts" while Lazarus or Dhuum, or any other hiding/weak enemy would not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

The only other people in the game who I can recall might be the stone summit, the thing in sorrows furnace looks as though it was manufactured by asurans(there are pieces of it in oola's lab). There are bloodstones in the shiverpeaks, the stone summit hate everybody, there are outlets from the shiverpeaks to cantha at least, though they have no motive to attack elona other then generic world domination...

Leon stated how it's been proven that the Iron Forgeman was found by Oola, created by the Stone Summit. It's been proven by ANet staff. And what do you mean "outlets from the shiverpeaks to cantha" Tyria and Cantha are no where near connected. And if you mean into the Echovald Forest, via tunnels created by escaped Dredge, they'd probably target Count Zu Heltzer and try to re-enslave the Dredge there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

The conundrum is, anyone who would want to kill 1 or more of the targets has no clear motive to attack the others... unless they invent more lore.

Lazarus, Dhuum, Menzies (less then Dhuum but still), Charr Shaman(they hate all humans), Tengu (only if the clans are in contact with each other), Centaurs (only if the prides are in contact with each other), Underworld criminals (just your typical plotting human villains wanting to capitalize on chaos, which I hope to Grenth ANet does not go with).

There was more I wanted to comment, but Gmr Leon got everything else.

joshuarodger · Sep 16, 2008, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Leon stated how it's been proven that the Iron Forgeman was found by Oola, created by the Stone Summit. It's been proven by ANet staff. And what do you mean "outlets from the shiverpeaks to cantha" Tyria and Cantha are no where near connected. And if you mean into the Echovald Forest, via tunnels created by escaped Dredge, they'd probably target Count Zu Heltzer and try to re-enslave the Dredge there.

oh i dunno maybe he meant this outlet from cantha to the shiverpeaks. although i don't know for sure if it was completely caved in during the run from the destroyers, but if one exists, why can't there be others?

i find all of this quite interesting but i highly doubt one of our own allies aka Livia would have anything to do with this.

Konig Des Todes · Sep 16, 2008, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Personally, I think the tunnel under Kaineng and Istan were just for game mechanic purposes. Also, they do not directly link to the Shiverpeaks, notice you go through a Asura Gate (and the Dwarves and Vekk came there via Asura Gate), and the gate was destroyed in Boreal so no way back even if the tunnel was not collapsed completely.

Operative 14 · Sep 16, 2008, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

I already said that Livia did not have connections to golemancers other then working with ONE for as long as our characters did. Did you see how they were built? Or anything of the sort? Gadd was not a golemancer, he researched/created power sources, not golems. ...

Wasn't that the only thing provided by the stranger though? I thought the stranger provided some weird power cores for them, and Zinn was the one who did the actual golemancing.

Not that I agree with the Livia theory, just wondering. I think the fact that the stranger is a 'he' sort of discounts it, unless she was acting through an unknown agent for some reason.

mazey vorstagg · Sep 16, 2008, 06:17 AM // 06:17

The fact that the stones have something trapped inside them just makes me think of deamons. I know it's really been mentioned in GW lore yet, but Anet tends to take things from pop-culture and a buzzing stone with something trying to get out made me think of those clockwork bugs in Northern lights.

Whoever it was, and i think a new character, bound deamons inside the stones to make sure the golems were under his control.

draxynnic · Sep 16, 2008, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

By how it was worded, I think it was a do-or-die-anyways act. I also think that these ghosts were created by the sword, because they would not be put to rest by just the returning of one of the swords. If the ghosts refused to move on from a wish of seeing something done, they would only pass on with either Ascalon being reborn or the Charr wiped out. Also, if it wasn't the power of the sword, then the ghosts would not considere everyone an enemy, just the Charr, and maybe Krytans. Also, it even states that the ghosts were "animated by the sword."

The only question is if Adelburn knew what would happen or not. I, for one, would think he knew that it would. But that won't be proven until GW2. And if he did know, why would he damn his soldiers and countrymen to a permanent war with the Charr then just letting their spirits rest in the Underworld/Fissure of Woe.

The Movement of the World is still an in-universe text - what it states is what the historians of Tyria believe. It may not necassarily be completely accurate... and even then, it lists the belief that returning Rurik's sword would put the spirits to rest as a rumour.

Now, we know these rumours turn out to be true nine times out of ten, but there could be other explanations - for instance, the return of the sword could be seen as the proof that Ascalon really has returned rather than simply being the Charr dressing up slaves as Ascalonians and forcing them into the city (which is something I'm willing to bet they've tried... or they're going to try... tenses are confusing on this subject.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

It also sounds like they hate all races so why would they only make hell for the humans?

Humans are currently the strongest, especially if whoever's doing the planning knows that Abaddon and the Great Destroyer were taken down by humans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

Also, we have solid lore on the Mursaat that provides plenty of reason to attack all humans. The interesting part is that if it did happen to be the Mursaat, we would need an explanation of how they know of the other human civilizations. How? Easy. Both Canthans and Elonians come to Lion's Arch requesting help at one point in time or another, it would take self-imposed ignorance to not know of this contact.

What's more, technically there were probably Elonian and Canthan heroes at the Ring of Fire. This does interesting things to causality (for the Elonians at least) but it might be reasonable to imagine that the buildup to attack Gandara might have taken the time between Nightfall and the earlier instalments.

Even before that, there are CERTAINLY going to have been Elonian heroes who've completed the Naveed chain, and thus got Lazarus annoyed at them for that if not for any involvement with the opening of the Door of Komalie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel

(aside from Dredge, Forgotten, Norn, and Asura)

Strike the Dredge from that list - plenty are hostile enough in Echovald Forest.

Konig Des Todes · Sep 16, 2008, 09:40 AM // 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operative 14

Wasn't that the only thing provided by the stranger though? I though the stranger provided some weird power cores for them, and Zinn was the one who did the actual golemancing.

Not that I agree with the Livia theory, just wondering. I think the fact that the stranger is a 'he' sort of discounts it, unless she was acting through an unknown agent for some reason.

The power crystal is all that the stranger provided, this is true. But I was making that point in hopes of correcting Hugh Manatee in his theory. I wouldn't mind his theory as much if he just looked more into it and had a little better grammar (and split his paragraphs more often).

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazey vorstagg

The fact that the stones have something trapped inside them just makes me think of deamons. I know it's really been mentioned in GW lore yet, but Anet tends to take things from pop-culture and a buzzing stone with something trying to get out made me think of those clockwork bugs in Northern lights.

Whoever it was, and i think a new character, bound deamons inside the stones to make sure the golems were under his control.

If there is something in the power stone given for R.O.X. (notice that there is nothing to say that P.O.X.'s and N.O.X.'s power stones were the same as R.O.X.'s), it would lead more to the Mursaat. This is because of everyone we know of, they are the only ones who are proven to be able to put souls/aspects into stones/other beings (evidence via Bloodstones/Battery Charge and the Lazarus chain in EN).

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gmr Leon

Also, we have solid lore on the Mursaat that provides plenty of reason to attack all humans. The interesting part is that if it did happen to be the Mursaat, we would need an explanation of how they know of the other human civilizations. How? Easy. Both Canthans and Elonians come to Lion's Arch requesting help at one point in time or another, it would take self-imposed ignorance to not know of this contact.

What's more, technically there were probably Elonian and Canthan heroes at the Ring of Fire. This does interesting things to causality (for the Elonians at least) but it might be reasonable to imagine that the buildup to attack Gandara might have taken the time between Nightfall and the earlier instalments.

Even before that, there are CERTAINLY going to have been Elonian heroes who've completed the Naveed chain, and thus got Lazarus annoyed at them for that if not for any involvement with the opening of the Door of Komalie.

Technically, lore wise, the Ring of Fire incident happened prior to Factions (iirc, Cantha was "barred off" with trade because of the plague until Factions came out). And Elonians could not have been on the Ring of Fire because the Titans being unleashed happened 3 years prior. Cantha and Elona came to LA for help, but not the other way.

The only evidence of Elonians in Tyria are 1. When burying monarchs in the Tombs of the Primeval Kings/Pilgrimage, 2. When the Tombs of the Primeval Kings became corrupted (which, lore wise, would have happened during the time of Factions or just before), and 3. when Kormir went in search of heroes. Before Kormir, Elonians never went north or west of the Crystal Desert

As for your quest chain, the only heroes that could "annoy" Lazarus personally would be the heroes. Zho, Lo Sha, and Talon are the only Canthans (which would raise his ire against Tengu as well as humans), and then there is Herta (funny how she is the only elonian henchmen in EN).

Plenty of common time things to go on for Lazarus to know of Cantha, but not so much with Elona. Best thing to assume would be that the Mursaat knew of Cantha and Elona before their rule as the Unseen Ones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Strike the Dredge from that list - plenty are hostile enough in Echovald Forest.

Those Dredge are not widescale enough to hate Elonan or Tyrian humans. They would only (and only a fraction of them) hate the Kurzicks. The assassination attempts goes far too out of place to have them considered.

Also, hostile =/= revenge.

draxynnic · Sep 16, 2008, 11:53 AM // 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Technically, lore wise, the Ring of Fire incident happened prior to Factions (iirc, Cantha was "barred off" with trade because of the plague until Factions came out). And Elonians could not have been on the Ring of Fire because the Titans being unleashed happened 3 years prior. Cantha and Elona came to LA for help, but not the other way.

Actually, Mhenlo does show up to ask for help in both cases. Regarding Factions and Prophecies, I think they were trying to make the exact order ambiguous - you could interpret it as either happening before the other. Certainly, the bridging quest Chaos in Kryta makes no implication that things are happening in the past - unless you actually do backtrack towards Ascalon. Or, on the Canthan side, Shing Jea.

The same applies to the Nightfall-Prophecies bridging quest Terror in Tyria - even though we know that Prophecies is before Nightfall, there is no indication that going to help Tyria - or Cantha, for that matter - involves going into the past. Hence my suggestion that the Istan part may in fact occur three years before the attack on Gandara, with the Sunspears going to assist in other parts of the world while Kormir gathers forces to attack Gandara.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel

As for your quest chain, the only heroes that could "annoy" Lazarus personally would be the heroes. Zho, Lo Sha, and Talon are the only Canthans (which would raise his ire against Tengu as well as humans), and then there is Herta (funny how she is the only elonian henchmen in EN).

Actually, I was thinking of the PCs...

BrettM · Sep 16, 2008, 12:03 PM // 12:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Cantha and Elona came to LA for help, but not the other way.

If you ignore the quests "Chaos in Kryta" and "Terror in Tyria", where Mhenlo asks for help in Kaineng Center and Kamadan.

"Terror in Tyria" is certainly anachronistic, since Mhenlo asking for Elonian help against the undead in Kryta is three years too late. It just doesnt fit the lore, being a matter of game mechanics needed to tie the campaigns together.

But the events in Cantha seem to be more-or-less contemporaneous with the happenings in Prophecies. The Canthan heroes were in training on Shing Jea during the time that the Ascalonian heroes were fighting the Charr and making the trek across the Shiverpeaks. One could assume that there was a lull after the refugees arrived at LA, during which Mhenlo got the letter from Togo and went to Cantha, followed by another letter from LA calling him back as the threat of the undead grew.

Edit: I like draxynnic's explanation better. The events in Istan, starting a bit before "The Time is Nigh", being approximately contemporaneous with Kaineng City and LA. In that case, Shing Jea training, the trek from Ascalon, and the early Istan missions are all in the past as far as non-native chars are concerned.

However, both Prophecies and Factions have clearly been over for some time at the time you go to recruit Olias and Zenmai.

Free Runner · Sep 16, 2008, 05:29 PM // 17:29

One of Cynns quotes makes it sound like Factions took place immediatly after Prophecies - perhaps while the events on the Ring of Fire Island chain were happening,the new students were training on Shing Jea, finding out about the plague around the time the Lich was destroyed.

Because of the way the stand alone campaigns work, its hard to place everything in order however i would assume the events at Gandara took place immediatly after Istan, due to the murder of Kayhet. Varesh would not let that slide for three years since it leads to both provinces being on the brink of war.

Etherway both Shiros Plague and Nightfall are over by the time Eye of the North starts and there was no doubt news being carried around about Kormirs ascension, Abaddons defeat and the victory over the plague.

All it takes is whispers being carried around Tyria, for any surviving Mursaat to learn about the other continents. I'd go with the Mursaat knowing about the other continents already - both Cantha and Elona have been around since the beginning, and there as been interaction between them long before the events of Prophecies. We still dont really know where the Mursaat came from so its not a stretch to think they know quite alot about the world, Tyria.

Konig Des Todes · Sep 16, 2008, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Actually, Mhenlo does show up to ask for help in both cases. Regarding Factions and Prophecies, I think they were trying to make the exact order ambiguous - you could interpret it as either happening before the other. Certainly, the bridging quest Chaos in Kryta makes no implication that things are happening in the past - unless you actually do backtrack towards Ascalon. Or, on the Canthan side, Shing Jea.

The same applies to the Nightfall-Prophecies bridging quest Terror in Tyria - even though we know that Prophecies is before Nightfall, there is no indication that going to help Tyria - or Cantha, for that matter - involves going into the past. Hence my suggestion that the Istan part may in fact occur three years before the attack on Gandara, with the Sunspears going to assist in other parts of the world while Kormir gathers forces to attack Gandara.

I think that Chaos in Kryta was put there for linking the two games together for a game mechanic purpose. Terror in Tyria only mentions about undead hordes being the threat, and it is proven that the Undead are a threat even after Prophecies. So the threat from that quest is just the undead hordes in a lore perspective, but the whole storyline from a game mechanic perspective.

There are a few quests (mainly just the transfering quests) that cannot be taken for granted. You see no Factions NPCs in Elona (other then Zenmai and one NPC who gives the quest to head to KC from Kamadan), so the Factions to Nightfall quest cannot be considered as actual lore immediately. Also, the quests of heading from Elona to Tyria/Cantha cannot be taken as lore because the only threats would be what remains of the undead (most seem to be underground after Prophecies) and what remains of the plague/Jade Brotherhood/Shiro'ken/Am Fah (Shiro'ken are not much of a problem as they would be reduced after Raisu Palace mission and Shiro cannot make more, afflicted would still be made via Am Fah, so the plague would still ravage for a while).

Cantha to Tyria is debatable, because the quests make it seem like they happen at the same time, but that is unknown (all that is known is that Prophecies ends at the end of the Season of the Scion, and that faction characters are told by glint that a problem is arising in Cantha (after completion of Hell's Pricipice).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vision of Glint

You have done great deeds in the lands of Tyria, and helped many innocents. But your own people in Cantha face a threat of an equally dire nature, a threat that cannot go unchecked! You should return home with haste...we all must ensure the villainy of Shiro Tagachi does not bring about the end of Cantha. If it does, your efforts in Tyria will certainly have been in vain.

I think, that how the Prophecies/Factions storyline goes is the events of Shing Jea Island happens at the same time of at least the Ring of Fire missions, but probably (as those missions would only be in a one day span, I assume, and the shing jea island missions/quests were probably a week) it is more accurate to say Escape from Sanctum Cay=Enrollment of 5 new students (Kisai, Mai, Lukas, Taya Yijo).

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Actually, I was thinking of the PCs...

From a lore perspective, you must remember, everything the players do, would be replaced by Devona and co. No matter what campaign they are from (only exclusion would be the things before the arrival of Tyrian characters in the other games, which would be replaced by the henchmen). So, if you look at the Lazarus quest chain from a lore perspective, only the henchmen there would be there.

@ BrettM, just look above for my response, as it would be the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

One of Cynns quotes makes it sound like Factions took place immediatly after Prophecies - perhaps while the events on the Ring of Fire Island chain were happening,the new students were training on Shing Jea, finding out about the plague around the time the Lich was destroyed.

Said the same thing before I even read your post. Heh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

Because of the way the stand alone campaigns work, its hard to place everything in order however i would assume the events at Gandara took place immediatly after Istan, due to the murder of Kayhet. Varesh would not let that slide for three years since it leads to both provinces being on the brink of war.

There is plenty of time between Factions and Nightfall for the pre-Tyrians to just be resting (or killing Urgoz/Kanaxai, although, lore wise, that was probably done to help gain trust of the Kurzicks/Luxons).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

All it takes is whispers being carried around Tyria, for any surviving Mursaat to learn about the other continents. I'd go with the Mursaat knowing about the other continents already - both Cantha and Elona have been around since the beginning, and there as been interaction between them long before the events of Prophecies. We still dont really know where the Mursaat came from so its not a stretch to think they know quite alot about the world, Tyria.

Gotta agree, especially on that last part. We know Mursaat live(d) in the Tarnished Coast/Maguuma Jungle, but nothing says thats where they originated from. And that leads to the possibility of more Mursaat in an unknown land, that was never threatened by the Titans (as they were only released on Tyria), and Nightfall probably didn't happen fast enough for some areas to get affected.

We don't even know how long/far the Maguuma Jungle goes to the west, let alone the land.

draxynnic · Sep 17, 2008, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

Because of the way the stand alone campaigns work, its hard to place everything in order however i would assume the events at Gandara took place immediatly after Istan, due to the murder of Kayhet. Varesh would not let that slide for three years since it leads to both provinces being on the brink of war.

She didn't. She banished the Sunspears from Kourna - and since the Sunspears aren't technically under Istani control, she can't technically blame Istan for what she did (and Istan also has the stronger fleet - even after the fleet was worse than decimated after Gandara, Istan was still able to defend its borders). It seems at least reasonable to think that it's possible there was three years of buildup (on both sides - Varesh towards setting up the ritual) before the attack on Gandara.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel

From a lore perspective, you must remember, everything the players do, would be replaced by Devona and co. No matter what campaign they are from (only exclusion would be the things before the arrival of Tyrian characters in the other games, which would be replaced by the henchmen). So, if you look at the Lazarus quest chain from a lore perspective, only the henchmen there would be there.

I STRONGLY disagree on this one. When it comes to GW2 lore, it's easy enough to say "A group of heroes..." or even "A group of heroes from Ascalon, Cantha and Elona..." - over two and a half centuries, it's fair to say that the names have been lost. They could even have Devona & co, but mention that they were helped by other heroes from Ascalon, Cantha and Elona whose names have been lost to history.

While as far as GW is concerned... the stuff we did, we did. Yes, there's the usual weirdness about how millions of people have done the thing that was done by a party of 8, but as far as storyline is concerned, if you did something, you did it.

Either way, rationalising the Mursaat not knowing about Cantha and Elona, especially with regards to the Lazarus quest chain, doesn't work. I'll admit there is a certain amount of justification of things that ANet probably didn't consider in the Istan-happened-three-years-ago theory, but the fact remains that I'm willing to bet that the majority of parties doing the Lazarus chain had Canthans and Elonians in the party, whether as henchmen (Herta may be just one, but she's a popular one), heroes, or PCs. And since this is in the original Guild Wars, it's still our characters that have done these things - even if they will, Devona and co haven't taken our place yet.